TOPIC:

With respect to wet and drying I think it depends on which paint you use. I experiment on which is the best grade of wet and dry with some warm water and a little washing up liquid. If you get the correct grade then you will get a milky residue when sanding. Also when the boat is cleaned and dried you can poor cold water on the finished surface and it should role straight off. Personally i only wet and dry the bottom of the boat and keep the gloss effect on the sides. However the water droplets will stick to the unpolished / sanded sides. I must get out more!



It is also pays to read the rigging articles and the tuning articles on our sisters sites in the USA and Canada I know that Messieurs Duncan and Harris and many more have spent a lot of time putting pen to paper to explain how to tune/sail Albacores.



Phil


A6504 A6936

Well Chris, it looks like you are definitely the throw some money at the problem, kind of guy! Although in principle you are sort of right….. Lets see if we can do the same for less dosh! Existing mast – but do we (helm & crew) know the characteristics of the mast in different conditions (I don’t) learn how to increase and de-power the mast. Speak to your sailmaker; ask if the sails he made you last year (or five years ago) are ok for your current all up weight of xxSt. If cash is in short supply you need to ask “what is the best I can do given new sails are not an option” Or maybe you can afford a jib!



Hull & Foils as Chris says, 600 grade wet & dry, I Know that the previous owner of 7176 used 1000 W&D to get the desired finish. Two schools of thought here leave after W&D or polish, I will let Chris come back on that one!



I now go back to the topic of control lines and whether they work when you pull on them. Lets just say if they don’t they need replacing and you just have to do it! So look at the control line, the pulleys in the system and the cleating device.



Right -- Flyaway pole is a must! Not expensive use existing pole, no chance of loosing it!



Adjustable rig -- minimum is quadrant levers and/or throw off levers, this requires some mechanism to pull the mast forward so muscle box (ebay Ł10) or a pulley system (make one up).



Remember if everytyhing in the boat is working you can devote your time to going fast, watching for changes in conditions and generally just enjoying your sailing – but faster!



Derek Gibbon 7176 & 6852



Derek Gibbon2008-09-17 20:37:15

Mast, sails and foils easy.

Sail a lot.

Prior to 05 Internationals I had not set foot in an Albacore, we did the following;

New mast from Selden, I knew how the mast worked and was happy with the bend charcteristics.

Sails from Mike Mac, I knew he would not let us down!

Hull, wet flatted (wet'n'dry 600 grade) and polished with an electric buffer.

Centre board wet flatted.

Rudder made my own.

The hull was a 'Woof' and needed little work.



I did the same to 6918, woof hull, new Selden mast, Mac sails, we were fast.

Since then 6918 had the full repaint/varnish but had to be sold, I still had the use of 7512 and now a new glass boat.

Hi



Can I assume that you got your boat from Ben at the Thames? What Phil has suggested makes sense, but you need to start off by weighing the bare hull and then making some decisions. Maybe you can get back in touch once you know the weight. You will be able to use epoxy to stiffen the hull when you redeck and a half tank will also help, if there is a thwart or stiffner across the front of the centreboard case then that will help, if not they can be fitted.



Derek Gibbon 7176 & 6852

NAA ChairmanDerek Gibbon2008-09-29 12:14:50

Thanks very much indeed, Phil.



I have almost a whole sheet of 5mm Robbins Gaboon spare from renewing Firefly side tank fronts (Firefly class regs say 5mm +/- 1 mm - original fronts were 6mm, 4mm is flimsy..)




Half height bow tank - thanks, will do.



Very interesting thought about the transom - some hooligan (not Ben who passed her on to me when his rebuild project got overtaken by paternity) has painted the old transom black (on a fore and aft planked Fairey - aaragh! ) so an excuse to scrap and replace it will be taken very gladly, and if we can flatten out the afterbody in the process.... !







Anything I need to do about the mast step area?



AC-B2008-09-29 14:52:28

Derek - Thank you; yes, this was the boat that Ben May at Thames SC had for sale.



The hull is very light - it has been stripped and revarnished externally and internally it has yet to be cleaned out. Without the decking it is difficult to be sure of what the stripped hull weight would be - I suppose I can weight a sheet of Robbins plywood and adjust for deck area using Simpson's Rules - but in handling it it did seem very light, I would estimate, based on lugging other dinghies around, about 170-180lbs.



(I've now found and printed off the Class Rules!) AC-B2008-09-29 15:45:00

Most certainly not. but replacement of parts that still comply with the letter of the rules should pose no problem and Richard Smith should be allowed to replace his transom without having to find a measurer. He wont be the first or the last and it will keep older entry level boats on the water for longer which is in the best interests of the class. Besides,if you make a significant change to any part of a moulded hull the movement appears somewhere else. twist the front the back moves so significant gains cannot be made.

Using any relaxation as a reason to tweak supposes that a builder actually wants to go to the trouble of altering moulds etc for about 5-10 boats a year. Unlikely. The precedent has already been set by Woof/ Kingsfield . What we ned is a sensible means of keeping old boats sellable and sailable to the bennifit of the class as a whole

Sam

Hi Sam et al



As you will see from my previous posting (2/3 up)



"Sorry if this seems a bit firm but the hull shape is an area that almost brought the class to it's knees during the late 80's and 90's. Even today the topic crops up from time to time. I suspect this will raise more questions and I will try and answer them and also check with the RYA rep and the technical committee"



The point I was making is we cannot allow owners to change the hull shape after the boat has been measured, surely you are not suggesting that we do?



The problem with allowing an exception for whatever reason is that others will use this as a precedent to tweak.



Derek Gibbon

NAA Chairman

ps I will contact the RYA todayDerek Gibbon2008-09-30 08:23:40

Where does it say a redeck requires remeasurement? All I can find is 5.5 which says,in part,"Any alterations, replacements or repairs shall comply with current class rules" No mention of remeasurement the onus being on the builder/owner to ensure that every thing is legal. Does it not also say on the certificate that the owner undertakes to comply with class rules or words to that effect. Talk about the spirit of the rules is a nonsense that all went out of the window the day a boat was signed off and it wasnt up and down the middle of the tollerences. In this day and age 1mm is a big distance let alone the size of the tollerence we have and at that rate anything NOT in the middle must be outside "The spirit of the rules" We accept without question that a boat should be minimum weight,have maximum sized sails and as near a maximum thickenss centreboard as possible all these are deliberately exploited tollerences and outside the spirit of the rules. I am not seeking to open old wounds again with this but it seems to me that we ruling any repaired old boat out of class unless remeasured. Are there any measurers out here I have never seen a list.

Sam

Crikey! A lot to take in here - I have a lot of learning to do!








Thanks to everyone who has chipped in in response to my rather naive questions.


Richard - yes, she is that boat. Very sporting of Ben May to part with her. I had planned just to re=deck and use her for cruising and local club races but, as Ben had spotted, the hull is too good for that, and I will have to do things properly. Thanks for the advice on the half height tank and the mast strut post.


Derek - I hope you won't mind if I consult you quite a bit more as matters progress, particularly on rule interpretation.

Andrew

There was a Fairey at this years nationals that had a replacement transom fitted. I understand that its owner was asked at the event to get it re measured for his result to stand. I also think it had new decks, tanks bulkheads, C board case, mast boom sails etc. The only origenal part must have been the hull skin! However it looked fantastic, pointed like a badger and beat many a Woof Kingsfield Young Speed . 17th overall from memory.

I too have an old fairy where the transom has been painted. When I stripped it back it was obvious that it was too far gone to take a coat of varnish so I repainted it. There was a little bit of rot in the plywood where the transom meets the hog. My West and micro fibre repair has served well over the last three years and is invisible under the paint. I am intending this winter to carefully take the router to the transom face and remove 5 mm. I have some 5 mm ply with a nice figure in the grain to reface the transom with. I am hoping that I am keeping well inside the 'spirit' of the rules by doing this and not going to provoke the question of remeasurement.

I have got a half tank in the bow and I am not sure re the pros and con re stiffness or too much or too little boyancy in a capsize. What I can say is that it is most practicle when you are out on the water for a day. The sandwiches keep nice and dry under the fore deck and they are not rolling around in the bilge water. Also handy for stowing cloths paddles flares etc. If you do put in a half tank consider a post to take a load for a mast strut. I had to add this as a retro fit and it was fiddly

Good Luck with your rebuild, If it the boat that I saw recently on the NAA for sale forum with the fore and aft planking, I think you have got a real bargin.




Regards


Richard Smith

1925




?OLIAN


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Hi

The fact that the boat is being re-decked (decked again) it will almost certainly need to be re-measurered. As for changing the hull shape that is a no...no! The tolerences are for builders errors, not to tweak the hull shape. This does bring up the fact that the more modern Albacore is a different shape from early Fairey Hulls but since they were built before the lines had been drawn we have to work with the original measurement certificate. We also have to work within the spirit of the class rules. It may be better to request from the RYA a copy of the original certicate to get a starting point. Also if there is not one, then clarification of the current shape will need to be checked and maintained.



Sorry if this seems a bit firm but the hull shape is an area that almost brought the class to it's knees during the late 80's and 90's. Even today the topic crops up from time to time. I suspect this will raise more questions and I will try and answer them and also check with the RYA rep and the technical committee.



regards



Derek Gibbon

NAA Chairman

Interesting point about the tramsom. In my experience this is one of the most common areas for problems with either rot or damage. As there is currently no wood builder I suppose we will have to bodge things up untill one is appointed or does this rule aply only to new build? Rule 5.2 says that " measurement tollerences are intended to allow for genuine building errors anmd shall not deliberately used to alter the design" Where does that leave the "Fast" boats (Woof Kingsfield et al) because if they are right the Fairey based boat must be wrong and vice versa. This is a silly rule that is practically unenforceable as the transom one. Perhaps its time the whole thing was looked at in21st century terms. And before anyone suggests it I havent got time

Thanks, John - I'd just noticed that bit in the Rules!



I see potential for a "VSCC Bugatti situation" - "when is a repair not a repair, but new construction?" AC-B2008-09-29 16:09:33

MrGin wrote:

Hi AC-B,


You may want to consider a new transom to flare the back end a bit ....

AC-B wrote:

Very interesting thought about the transom - some hooligan (not
Ben who passed her on to me when his rebuild project got overtaken by
paternity) has painted the old transom black (on a fore and aft planked Fairey - aaragh![img]smileys/smiley18.gif[/img]) so an excuse to scrap and replace it will be taken very gladly, and if we can flatten out the afterbody in the process.... !

Andrew, welcome to the class, but a note of caution before you rush into replacing the transom. Check out rule 2.2:

...The transom shall be built into the shell by the licensed builder and shall be not less than 17mm thick.
I guess this is there to prevent the aforementioned surgery being applied to gain an advantage, however I'm not sure how it would apply to a renovation. You may have to get a full re-measure.
John W.