TOPIC:

Another 5 points off for 2014 www.rya.org.uk/racing/Pages/portsmouthyardstick.aspx Disappointing!

At least the dreaded Phantoms go down 10 and N12's 9.
I see we are now faster than the RS 200, who have the same real jib/main area (as opposed to "measured" ) as us and weigh in at 50 lbs. lighter let alone the spinnaker. The Solos get a very nominal 2 point reduction and will be even more superior in light and heavy winds on flat water.

I see that nearly 3500 handicap race results have been submitted to support our PN which seems a lot for quite a small racing class spread thinly over the country.

I am also beginning to doubt the accuracy of the data analysed. Some few years ago the Supernova and Albacore were on very similar handicaps. Now the Supernova PN is 1070 and the Albacore 1050. I know we have some good sailors but I can hardly credit that we have all improved so much! We are not a development class so time maybe to question the validity of the data or the analysis. I am looking to do more class racing in the future as there seems little pleasure left in handicap racing with Solos and Lasers. There also seems to have been a steady decline in traditional two-handed boats in favour of single-handers which is a great pity.

Albacore Andy

I too am also perplexed by this. I was going to pen a missive to try and highlight how an anomaly may have crept in but ended up going round in cirlces and up my own ****.

So how about a quick straw poll??
Just respond with your Club name, how many Albs you have in your fleet and what PY you used last year.
If you look on the published PY list it gives details of the clubs that sent in returns for last year. The adjustment will have come from those clubs with large fleets using different to last years official 1055 PY number.

Tewkesbury had 5 boats using 1055 last year. And we did not send a return

Matt

Invergordon had four Albacores last year all sailing of 1055. We also did not submit a return.

Ian
AL 8157

If the handicap does not work for you at your club, you need to ensure that your club sends in it's returns and adjust locally if it is warranted (although this can be a sensitive subject).

We have 10-11 Albs sailing off 1055 last year (1050 this year) and we send in returns.
However, most of our racing is either class racing or pursuit racing - neither of which are useful for handicap returns. We have 1 all in handicap a month, plus Thursday nights (with just 1 or 2 Albs).

To be honest, getting on the wrong side of just a couple of the shifts at our lake makes the differences in handicap pretty insignificant.

There are days when we cant touch the faster solos on handicap (very light) and days when we struggle to shake off the lasers (marginal planing), but on the other hand there are days when it goes dark as wall-to-wall Albacores block out the sun at the front of the fleet.

Take the rough with the smooth, handicap racing will always be a compromise. Rather than complaining about your handicap, treat it as a challenge to improve and beat the other b***ers despite the handicap.
Until you sail the perfect race every race, there is always room to improve.

But make sure your clubs send in their results (sailwave and the other scoring software can do this for you, so no excuses).

John

Just had a peruse at several websites for 2013 handicap results:

Broadwater 2013: 1055
Grafham 2014: 1055
Lyme Regis 2012: 1062 (so presume 2013: 1055)
Maidenhead 2013: 1055
Rutland SC 2013 (Feb): 1062
Scaling Dam - no PY number on results
West Kirby 2014: 1050 AND 1055!
Paignton 2013: 1055 (no returns to RYA)
Hayling Island 2014: 1060 (but they use their own weird system)
Nottingham 2013: 1055

So tell me where else the seething masses of expert Albacore sailors were competing in handicap races last year on a sub 1050 PY number!
Clubs can only return the PY numbers they have actually used (not what they think they should be).

I would suggest it is well worth an approach to the RYA to query the data used for 2014!

Matt

John,

Fair point - sail better.
But that does not change the fundamentals of the boat!
Local adjustment is a very touchy subject and unless you have a tough skinned sailing committee together with sufficient empirical result data (enough of each class and different classes racing together) nothing will change.

So somebody somewhere has told the RYA they had (say) 1600 race observations sailed off 1045 so as to skew the other 1600 race observations sailed off 1055!

Matt

That's not how it works Matt.
The adjustments are not based on an average of PY numbers being used by clubs.
The returns use the actual race times in the calculation.
Therefore a handicap may be adjusted below any figure that any club is using. If a boat is consistently doing well by a large margin, then they are likely to be adjusted down if there are sufficient results with the same indication.

A couple of the Albs at Maidenhead are sailing on a personal handicaps (we have both PY and personal H/C results) that are around the 860 mark (1055 x 0.82), so I dont think there is any need to worry about 5 points just yet!

5 points equates to about 12 seconds in a 45 minute race. Many boats loose way more than that on the start.

I think the other thing to bear in mind is that there will be a higher proportion of new boats sailing these days with the new Ovi boats being available.

Many old wrecks will be scrapped as the owners upgrade to shiny new boats, or they will have bought one of the hand-me-downs from others who have purchased an Ovi.

There is no doubt that an Ovi is faster than a beat-up Fairey, so this will be reflected in the PY. I wouldnt be surprised to see a further reduction next year too.

John,

I think I'm beginning to lose touch with reality.

Next you will be telling me the world is round!!

Matt

John,

I do have my reservations about the Sailwave system.
I cannot believe that there are enough Ovi Albs in regular handicap racing in the UK yet to have a big impact.
I am aware of 25 in the UK since March 2011 (as per Ovis royalty list) which I think numbered from around 8151 through to 8211 (20 Ovis went to Canada/USA plus 15 numbers)?
Prior to that maybe only 8? including the likes of Jerry Rook, Mike Banner, Phil Tindall, Colin Walters (or is his a Speed?) and yourself of course (8126 to 8133 ish)

So a total of 30-35 Ovi's on the water in the UK as of today.

And if the Ovi's were that good, more of them should be in the higher ranks at the Nationals.
Rankings in 2012: 1st, 5th, 10th, 11th, 13th, 17th, 20th, 24th, 25th, 28th, and 37th out of 42.

Wooden boats: 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 12th.....................
with a few Speeds and Porters thrown in.

I am concerned that some of the data is false - or unduly biased by incorrect interpretation.

The big issue for the class is that until about 2009(?) we had a primary number of 1066 which to all intents and purposes was a fair number.
All the boats prior to the Ovi's have not changed so why their PY?
It risks killing off the older boats in general club handicap racing which then leads to a fall off in interest in the association.

I think it is too important just to let it go by without further clarification.

Matt

Well I am with Matt on this one because handicap racing now holds little interest. I think there are probably others with older boats who have similar feelings. Yes we all need to improve but sorry you will never convince me that the class needs a handicap heavily biased towards the newer faster boats. It is just one more nail in the old boat coffin. If we continue past 1050 and below then I think we have to consider what we do to encourage the 'silver fleet' We are not a development class but there is no question that the new ovis are quicker and in capable hands very quick. Call it evolvement. My feeling is that the older boats were correct at around 1066. Possibly the whole PN system needs a big shake up? I am fortunate and able to find class racing close by and it will be my preference in the short term. I don't mind racing against faster boats - yes it makes you learn and refine and improve which is what we all need to do.

Albacore Andy

Perhaps the answer is to go the same route as some other classes, such as Merlins, and have two PY numbers dependant of age of boat. That may even revive handicap racing as the "beat-up old Faireys", which I am the proud owner of one although I don't race any more, would then be more competative. I know that in theory the Alb is a primary yardstick, but nothing is insurmountable. Paul

As an exercise, our club recalculated all of last years handicap races using the new 2014 handicap values.
The changes only made a difference in one single race where two boats exchanged places. The series results were totally unchanged.