TOPIC:

hello, has any one considered the possibility of buliding a strip-plank Albacore?





John bretherton

Hi Henry, I remember being told that hulls by either Fairey or perhaps Kingsfield were prepared for shipping abroad without transoms so that they could be stacked inside one another and thus save on costs. Parhaps someone else will confirm this. My own love is for wooden boats but these days I think that the build costs will limit the numbers and make it difficult for many builders. The way to go I'm sure, is to lend all our support to Richard and Chris and everyone else involved with the present manufacture, to produce as many sellable variations as possible. I don't know how they would incorporate a wooden stem but, if there were sufficient tollerance in the hull length I see no reason why a nice wood veneer could not be fitted to the transom at any time.

Crawford AL 6703

Richard wrote:

Chris



Are the RYA are actually killing off the class in the UK? Their bureaucratic approach to potential builders assumes Laser like volume production; this will never be the case with the Albacore.



In comparison the flying fifteen rules allow for any builder, there are restriction on min shell weight & shape seems now to be tightly controlled (historically it was not).



Any builder pays the fee gets it measured and away you go! www.flying15.org/gbr/rules.htm#GeneralB rules 2.1 & 2.2



Just a shame you do not see any wooden FFs! Wooden Dragons are still being built.



May be the Albacore Association should adopt similar rules to the FF that would then promote more builders. It would seem this approach would be far more inline with the US Albacore Associations approach.

Current advice to any perspective Alb builder is move to the states or go build another class!



I have been thinking about buying a bare hull and fitting it out and agree a wood deck and tanks would come close. I am not sure if a wooden transom could be introduce and wooden stem, but with all these details you would have all the beauty with may be a little more practicality

The answer to the wooden transom would be a flat "NO"



The transom has to be affixed by the hull builder according to class rule 2.2.



A few points to consider:

One of the reasons that there are so many hoops to jump through (at least here in North America) is that the number of builders need to be proportional to the size of the market. We have a North American builder (Ontario Yachts) and there is not likely to be another builder licensed any time soon since the market for Albacores is quite small. The market demand could easily be fulfilled by the current builder so there is no need for another.

Now there are pros and cons to having a wood boat builder alongside a GRP boat builder (the demographic spread of customers for each are quite different) but those are political issues to be dealt with by the governing bodies of the class.



From what I see and claim to understand is happening in the UK it seems that the RYA is doing more harm to the Albacore class than good. Perhaps it is time that the NAA take the local class administrative duties away from the RYA in a similar fashion to how the US and Canada administer the class in North America and hand the remaining administrative tasks to the international governing body: the International Albacore Association.



As Albacore sailors in the UK you should all be asking these questions.



Henry2008-01-02 01:20:41

I will let you know.

I am meeting Richard next week to collect the moulds to re-work the decks.

The hull mould will stay the same, the decks will be improved.

I will discuss with him the options, it is not my place to tell him what he should sell, but I see no reason for him not to want to sell bare hulls.

Probably the best option would be to have a hull with internals fitted and then just have wooden decks, this I believe would be the quickest and most cost effective way other than an all glass boat.

Watch this space....

There is no technical reason why a bare speed hull cannot be finished with wooden decks, I am not sure of the process but it is likely to be something like:

1. order a bare hull fro speed

2. pay them some brass (or money)

3. deck the boat

4. have it measured.



Have I missed anything?

Looking into it now......

Chris
Are you aware of any technical reasons why a bare hull from Speed could not be decked in wood?



JohnW2007-11-09 11:03:56

It is not actually the RYA's fault, this is the same for any class they administer, I have been through the hoops with both the Scorpion and the Solo.

The Fifteen is administered by ISAF and is a International Class, we have built over 30 Fifteens this year! And it is not viable in wood, I can build a Fifteen in a week complete, you wouldn't even get the hull done in that time in wood. Same goes for the ALB.

But we do supply bare hulls for wooden decking and the same for the 505's we make, one or two a year get wooden decks.

You can still get a sail number from the RYA and ship in a hull from the US as I understand it. You will need a building jig to keep the hull stable whilst in transit which won't help matters. Chris T2007-11-09 08:27:47

Chris




Are the RYA are actually killing off the class in the UK? Their bureaucratic approach to potential builders assumes Laser like volume production; this will never be the case with the Albacore.


In comparison the flying fifteen rules allow for any builder, there are restriction on min shell weight & shape seems now to be tightly controlled (historically it was not).


Any builder pays the fee gets it measured and away you go! www.flying15.org/gbr/rules.htm#GeneralB rules 2.1 & 2.2


Just a shame you do not see any wooden FFs! Wooden Dragons are still being built.


May be the Albacore Association should adopt similar rules to the FF that would then promote more builders. It would seem this approach would be far more inline with the US Albacore Associations approach.

Current advice to any perspective Alb builder is move to the states or go build another class!


I have been thinking about buying a bare hull and fitting it out and agree a wood deck and tanks would come close. I am not sure if a wooden transom could be introduce and wooden stem, but with all these details you would have all the beauty with may be a little more practicality


Anyway I am off to talk to Barney with my $2.1 to the Ł. Will he sell me a bare hull which will incorporates my highly figured mahogany faced plywood transom and laminated stem. I am sure once he puts it on his measuring jig the US Association will grant a certificate, just the shipping problem to deal with now!

Because of the hoops we have to jump though in the UK it even puts off us profesional builders from touching the Albacore.

I spoke to Peter Duncan at length, Indeed the US do not have the same restrictions, the licence is issued by the class only and not the National Sailing body (US sailing) I did ask if it was possible to apply for a US licence, it is not.

I do not think it is practicle to build a strip plank hull, it is even less practicle to cold mould a hull these days.

What I hope will happen with support from the class, is that we can encourage smaller wooden builders to purchase glass hulls from the licenced builder to be wooden decked.

As I undersatnd it the builder decking the boat does not have to have a licence, only the manufacturer of the hull from the licenced mould, the hull will then look exactly the same as a wooden boat, be cost effective to build and have a much more resliant hull than a new wooden version.

I inquired last year re building a strip plank Albacore. I personally think it would be an excellent way to make a very strong stiff durable hull. However there are many obstacles to make a street legal Albacore.


Firstly there were concerns from the association about this 'different' or 'new unapproved method' giving an unfair advantage. I understand the concerns but providing the hull shell lay up was no lighter per given area, then I can not see how an advantage would be gained. The modern FRP hull must have been an 'unapproved method' at some stage and I suspect that the same argument was made re weight per unit area.


There were also a lot of concerns regarding how the shape would be controlled (rightfully so). Strip planking is made over a frame mould as opposed to a cold moulded hull over a solid mould which has been approved. The frame mould would need to be approved and I also think a written procedure of how it could be dismantled and reassembled repeatably would need to submited. With modern available laser alignment technology I do not see this as a major problem


If all of these objection could be overcome with the association any prospective builder would need to gain a Building Licence to manufacture National Albacore Class dinghies from the RYA. A detailed written proposal would need to be submitted to the RYA Technical Committee and to assist judging any company’s suitability as an RYA licensed builder


This needs to include;


Intentions regarding the acquisition or manufacture of moulding tools.


The location and size of workshop and the number of work force.


Intended lay-up specifications including resin and glass types, content ratios, reinforcement etc.


Actions regarding COSHH.


Quality and measurement control procedures including after sales remedial actions if necessary.


Marketing intentions including stages of completion offered for sale and at what price.


Confirmation as to whether or not the company is a member of the British Marine Federation.


Intentions regarding the EU Recreational Craft Directive. (I actually think the RYA would have a conflict of interest with being both the licensee and the notified body)


The mould and prototype would require measurement and approval prior to a full licence being issued. Payment an approval bond to offset the cost of the mould and prototype approval. The bond is set at three times the current building fee of Ł70.50 for the class.








So do we wonder why few new builders have emerged in the last decade as the Albacore especially wooden hull will always be a low volume production. I gave up my quest as I was only interested in building perhaps a few hulls per year (probably all the market could sustain) on a part time basis.





It looks like a new builder of FRP hulls is appearing in the USA, Hapco marine. Good luck to them, I do however wonder if our friends from North America have had to jump through as many hoops to gain approval for building legal Albacores.





Hope this is of interest

Hi John



Not sure if it has been considered. All albacores have to be built on an approved mould and I would have thought that the triple or quadruple diagonal construction used to date in wooden boats would give a stronger hull in any case.



Due to the high cost of wooden boats almost all new ones are now grp foam cored boats, also helps keep down on maintainence, although a wooden boat does look the business.

It's possible, and Peter Duncan would know the answer to this as his dad John bought the first six Fairey Marine Albacores for North America for the Hyannis Port Yacht Club.

The manufacture of many of these vintage boats pre-dates the modern rule book so it's quite plausible that they were shipped sans transoms and with decks unaffixed.

Of course, I'm only speculating. Someone else will have to confirm the facts.