TOPIC:

Just to show how antiquated we are even the Heron class has them

Oh they look awful!

Yes and they can probably afford to replace them every season!!

I think we should re name the class Albasaur

If we set aside the looks issue, I have done a bit of digging and there appear to be some important aspects for consideration.

1. Significant Increased Cost is very important,
2.Racing Laminate sails die suddenly at about half the racing life of a dacron sail
3.When a laminate sail fails, it falls apart, it is useless to anyone, where a dacron sail can be used by club sailors for up to 20 years, It is logical then that there are inherent plastic pollution implications.

My experience from laminate sails in other classes is that they last a lot longer than Dacron for a certain performance. Dacron sails usually last well beyond their useful racing life.

Ive used them in Merlins, RS400, ive never worn a suit out. Any way lets leave it, due to lack of time it never got discussed at the AGM, hardly anyone posts on here, which probably sums up the apathy of most of our members, Albasaurus it is then

Various classes at our club use laminate sails.They are expensive and last no longer than normal ones, turning into useless costly blown out bags that cannot be used at all. I think we should only consider changes that are improvements, keeping results dependant on skill, not how much the helm is prepared to spend.

One thing laminate sails do not become is blown out bags. When they go they tend to go catastrophically, precisely because they don't have so much give (which is what enables a blown out sail). I suspect some of the comments made are not made with actual experience.

I've had my Phantom for nearly seven years now and not bought a single sail for it. It came with laminate sails, some of which are now over 10 years old. Given the choice for any kind of racing boat, laminates win every time and from personal experience last longer if performance matters.

You only have to look at Laser sails where top racers have to change their Dacron sails every six months (I've heard of sails blowing out in a single regatta) to realise laminate is actually cheaper for the top end of fleets.

Where performance is not so important, such as when cruising, then Dacron does last longer overall and is more forgiving. Of course you can choose any material you want when not racing.

I've read through the posts here as well as other stuff relating to this debate. Some of the best guys in the 505 fleet prefer dacron, having tried laminate sails.
I don't have any experience with laminate sails but would not like our class to change the rules to allow them.
The Comet Trio fleet have recently voted in laminate sails, along with a tapered mast and early indications are that they have improved their performance but, at the same time, driven a wedge between the 'haves' and 'have nots'. They are even mooting the idea of allocating a separate PY number to their new rig.
My issues with laminate sails are cost, and the way they suddenly stop working.
One can argue until the end of time, about longevity etc etc but my vote, should we have one, will be to stay with dacron - sorry Graham. I could even call my new boat Albasaurus!

Yes they look horrible. The Heron class had no Nationals last year so should their direction be of relevance to us as we had 50 at ours. We are not the Dodos here. I think that history and style is part of the attraction of our class as well as the accessibility at all levels. Introducing a split in both style and accessibility may not be the way forward as opposed to promoting the style and history of the class along with affordability. It's only my opinion I know, but will laminate sails rescue the Heron class? I know we have plenty more to us to keep us going.

Do laminate sails give a performance advantage?
If not, if there is no discern-able difference and it is simply that they last longer, then it should perhaps be an option.
If it does give a speed advantage then it will force anyone who is competitive to purchase a set. They already spend a bunch on the boat and travelling too so maybe they would be ok about this too.
However, it might also be detrimental to numbers at opens and nationals and possibly the number of club boats. It may ironically drop the value of the boat whilst increasing the cost of ownership, although you don't have to buy Laminate sails.

I sail a 40 year old Woof, 6844, that needs tlc to keep her going and I suspect that boat on boat speed comparison she is probably slower than the modern Ovington boats. I still race as many circuit events that time and money allow because I enjoy the competition and the challenge of racing an old boat on a budget. Especially when i manage to beat the brand spanking new boats! But If I have to lash out even more to get Laminate sails I might think it not worth it and if that means I stand even less chance against the newer boats and the competition is soon too far ahead then what's the point of travelling?

However it may be that Laminate sails will last longer and give a good return on the investment. I reckon I make a jib last a year, maybe two and a main probably three to four and still get good results although I think performance does drop noticeable after two years.
So how long does a laminate sail stay competitive?

This is great to finally get some comments, however my idea isnt to get a decision on whether we should adopt, merely a suggestion that with the classes backing i get one made to trial, this way we can come to an educated decision, without trying no one will know if they are faster, last longer, dont last as long etc, i would just ask that the sail can be used for open meetings etc on a trial basis.What do the comittee think ?

It would be good to get a sailmaker involved in this discussion - ideally one who makes sails in both materials

We have to remember that we are an international class and any rule changes have to be accepted by the IRC.Bearing in mind the cost increases concerned for community boat sailing this would seem very unlikely. The Albacore is thankfully not a development class after all.