TOPIC:

Chris

Dont forget we want your beautifully restored boat to go on the stand at next year's Dinghy Show as an example of what can be done - we have already booked its stand space

Jerry

Simple list of materials
1 sheet 6mm Gaboon ply for CB case 2 sheets 5mm Gaboon ply for tank sides and and bulkheads 3 sheets of 6mm sapele ply for decks and tank tops
1 board of sapele 16 foot by two inches by 10inches gunwales, thwart and carlin and cosmetic timbers and floor stiffners make sure when you order it that you ask for a plank with no short grain it will help
1 board of obeche same size as above for all internal structure and deck beams and stiffners in the tanks
Eposeal 300 5l for coating inside and outside of hull sp320 4kg for coating timber before paint and varnish sp106 5kg approx for sticking bonding and all associated jobs filler powders approx 5l paints and primers as required
hull and decks were painted with Car spray paint
I have no idea how long we took but best not to think about that and think about the sailing at the end might be described as a labour of love
give me a call if you want to chat
Chris
07941 301742

Just to say "Thank you for posting that, Chris" and to second Derek's request.

Hi Chris



It makes me smile with an imense sense of pride at your achievement, there are 44 pictures! They tell a wonderfull story. Is there any way you could put together some "words" describing the challanges and methods you used to TRANSFORM from start to finish?



Did you keep a note of the man hours that you put in and also the materials list? I know that once I start working on 435 I will have my work cut out, there are holes in the hull and it has no decks the bailers have been "pulled" out and the side tanks are rotten and once it dries out I will be able to tell if the wood in hull is soft or not. A winter project and a half. There will be photos, and hopefully in the spring a shiney "new" boat.



Derek Gibbon

hello all
as my boat has come up in conversation a couple of times now I decided that I should put a photo album on the web so that people wanting to undertake a project could have a look and see if it was something they would be interested in doing there are some 40 photos from start to finish
we had to do everything as the boat was close to having to go on the bonfire and had lots of holes in the hull, rotten cb case and the decks were falling off.
www.cserve.co.uk/albgallery.html
regards

Chris

John



I'm sure you are right and I'm certainly not going to get too worried about it I've got a good boat the foils are in good condition as are the spars and the sails, I'm sure any failing will be solely down to driver error!!!!

Well well well. Things have got a bit heated!



Today I spent some time on the phone to the technical dept at the RYA (the people who own the Albacore copyright, and in conjunction with the NAA) enforce the rules. My position as Chairman allows me the ability to get clarification on certain things no more or no less than any other personal member of the RYA. As a member of the NAA I have no more push/say/voting rights than any other member, so everything I say in this forum is a personal view on topics and usually ones that attempt to be fair level and for the good of the class and its' members. Not withstanding all of the above let me state for the record "Any alteration to any item which forms part of the measurement and subsequent issuing of a certificate by the RYA, can be re-checked at any time by the Association or race committee and it it is the sole responsibility of the owner to ensure that they comply with the rules.



So if you redeck, or re-transom, or re-centreboard etc. there is not a 100% requirement for being remeasured, the owness is on the owner to ensure it still measurers.



When I started this topic it was to try and encourage older boats' to realise that there are lots of things which if done properly and with some increase in understanding why some things work and when to apply certain controls, (ie you learn to be a better sailor) maybe more older boats will come to the championships and join in. I also said that the previous topic was suffering because we had gone off at a tangent. Well it has taken about a week for me to decide this one has gone the same way and I think I have failed in my attempt to steer it back.



Derek Gibbon

NAA member since 1985

ps I'm sure Andrews comments above about newer boats encouraging a cascade of boats down through the class is correct and despite comments elswhere about old boats heading for the bonfire, they won't, they will be fixed and "recycled" at the level they suit!

Derek Gibbon2008-10-01 08:48:09

Andrew wrote:

.... It may be the case that my 3 year old speed boat is not as fast as my brothers Kingfield but I can be sure that is good value for money well sorted and doesn't need varnishing or screwing back together on a regular basis.



Andrew

8069(Still working out where the rig should go!!)

There is no reason why 8069 should be any slower than your brother's Kingsfield. 8068 won the Nationals in 2006 and was second in 2007. Orlando's view was that there was no such thing as a "quick boat", which was probably a big factor in why he went fast - he just got on with the sailing.

Interesting thread guys, as someone who has just joined the class I m sure that there are many people who just want to buy an off the shelf boat a boat they can get in and sail without worrying whether they got a legal kingsfield, a Woof that was made to the right shape or the right vintage of Young. The fact that many of the top sailors in the fleet sail old boats is surely a great testament to the longevity of the design. The new boat looks like a great product and will surely attract new sailors to the class the class surely should welcome the new sailors that come with these boats and existing sailors who can upgrade thus releasing boats for new entrants in the secondhand market. It may be the case that my 3 year old speed boat is not as fast as my brothers Kingfield but I can be sure that is good value for money well sorted and doesn't need varnishing or screwing back together on a regular basis.



Old boats will inevitably be overtaken by newer boats and people will upgrade, of all the classes I have been involved with this is an inevitable fact of life it stimulates a flow of boats through the keen racers towards the new entrants. As Chris T rightly says, new sails well maintained foils and the correct setup along with time in the boat will more than offset any benefit a new boat will bring.



Andrew

8069(Still working out where the rig should go!!)

Wow. This is possibly the best way of keeping people out of old boats that need work I have ever had the misfortune to see or hear. I assume at that rate every redeck / major repair would need to go through the whole rigmorole just to maintain the certificate. Its no wonder perfectly restoreable boats keep finding their way onto bonfires

Derek - Thanks. I've sent a PM. (Parents' evening 6.45-7.30!)

Does Richard Smith want to replace his transom? I think not, he is going to take off 5mm from the back face of the transom and replace it with 5mm of new wood, ie not changing the shape.



So what did the RYA say? rule 5.5 has two parts to it.



5.5 For the measurement certificate and buoyancy endorsements to be valid, all hulls, spars, sails and equipment shall comply with either the current class rules or those class rules applying to them at the time when the original certificate was issued or endorsement signed with additional requirement that those items marked with an asterisk in Part B and Part D of the rules shall comply with the current class rules. Any alterations, replacements or repairs shall comply with the current class rules.



So hull 1741 built in 1965 before the line drawing were produced and the current tolerances applied, means that the section “or those class rules applying to them at the time when the original certificate was issued”. Would be what we want to apply. Any attempt to have a fairey hull measured under current class rules; (the only other alternative) would require a chain saw…. ie it is not an option.



The responsibility in complying with the above is the owner/registered keeper. The RYA will only issue a certificate after they are happy that the boat conforms to the original/current rules and that may require a re-measurement.



In order to be able to be able to have original (1965) rules apply the following needs to be considered, remember the onus is on the owner, take photographs, templates of the transom and measurements of the original transom and have them signed off by an independent club official. This may sound like overkill, but I am a belt and braces kind of guy. Andrew Craig-Bennett (AC- could of course do the same as Richard to ensure the shape stays as the original.



Derek Gibbon

NAA Chairman

ps Andrew has posted the above while I have taken over an hour to write my "piece" Andrew I think it is time we spoke. PM me your telephone number or call me after 6 tonight on 01383 880 727..... I really do want to help!

(Deleted as it crossed with Derek's port below, which supersedes it) AC-B2008-09-30 15:51:04

Most certainly not. but replacement of parts that still comply with the letter of the rules should pose no problem and Richard Smith should be allowed to replace his transom without having to find a measurer. He wont be the first or the last and it will keep older entry level boats on the water for longer which is in the best interests of the class. Besides,if you make a significant change to any part of a moulded hull the movement appears somewhere else. twist the front the back moves so significant gains cannot be made.

Using any relaxation as a reason to tweak supposes that a builder actually wants to go to the trouble of altering moulds etc for about 5-10 boats a year. Unlikely. The precedent has already been set by Woof/ Kingsfield . What we ned is a sensible means of keeping old boats sellable and sailable to the bennifit of the class as a whole

Sam

Hi Sam et al



As you will see from my previous posting (2/3 up)



"Sorry if this seems a bit firm but the hull shape is an area that almost brought the class to it's knees during the late 80's and 90's. Even today the topic crops up from time to time. I suspect this will raise more questions and I will try and answer them and also check with the RYA rep and the technical committee"



The point I was making is we cannot allow owners to change the hull shape after the boat has been measured, surely you are not suggesting that we do?



The problem with allowing an exception for whatever reason is that others will use this as a precedent to tweak.



Derek Gibbon

NAA Chairman

ps I will contact the RYA todayDerek Gibbon2008-09-30 08:23:40